Stone Veneer

[DaveE]

Quick question on attaching the stone veneer. I am installing the stone veneer on the face of a firepalce in my living room. I have installed 1/2 " Wonder Board to the framing. Can I use thin set to install the stone veneer or should I use a heavier morter product? I have several bags of thin set left over from a couple of tile jobs and wanted to use them up. Any guidance based on your experience would be appreciated!

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[Steven Hauser]

Hi Dan,

Buy the Latapoxy 310 Stone Adhesive.

I Like it.

My .02

[Rd Tile]

If those open bags are over 6 months old, toss em.:)

[rbatten]

I just did a fireplace with cultured stone, is that what your using? If so I used type N morter over metal lathe. I was covering a brick fireplace.

[DaveE]

I am using the cultured stone, I belive it's called Eldorado Stone. I am going over an old brick fireplace that had many coats of paint. It was easier to just cover it with WonderBoard and start with a clean, straight and flush surface. Based on the earlier thread, I will dump the thinset, it's almost a year old and go with a Type N morter. When all else fails read the instructions. Thanks for all your input.

[rbatten]

Here are some Pics:

Before

[rbatten]

During

[rbatten]

After

[Steven Hauser]

OH! :eek:

Cultured stone. There are instructions with the product. I think Type S will be just fine on the face.

Is it stick framing? If so I would use felt, lath and a scratch coat, then the type S.

My.02

[Dave Anderson]

OH!

Cultured stone. There are instructions with the product. I think Type S will be just fine on the face.

Is it stick framing? If so I would use felt, lath and a scratch coat, then the type S.

My.02




Someone mentioned using Type S with a shovel of thinset thrown in. Have you heard of that?

The instructions say to use 'paper backed lath'. What the heck is that and how is it different than a piece of lath from HD? Who sells it?

How think is the scratch coat? 1/2"?

Thanks!

Dave Anderson

[Steven Hauser]

Hi Dave,

Yes I have seen the paper backed lath. I have found it at specialty tile stores as well as masonry supply stores. that said 15 lb. roofing felt with diamond lath works just as well.

I make the bond coat thick enough to coat the lath, never a 1/2" what in my mind is skim coat, I do see a little metal here and there when I am done sometimes. I key the mortar in with the flat side of my trowel and then flip it over to get a couple of ridges here and there.

I have heard of the practice but personally don't do it. IMO I gain nothing but an extra step.

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks for the info Steve! I'm planning to do a stone chimney in the livingroom over the mantel. It will run about 15 feet tall.

So you use a 1/4" notched trowl for your scratch coat then?

Dave

[dmoolenaar]

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=8674&highlight=Eldorado

[rbatten]

Here is a link for the stone I used. If you click on tech. data and then select installation instructions pdf it will get you started.

I tried to give you a direct link but it won't let me.

http://culturedstone.com/

[Dave Anderson]

Okay, I got the instructions for the Cultured Ledge Stone that I intend to use. Here are some things they say that I have questions with.

1) Steve said to use "Type S". They recommend "Type N".

2) Where do you buy mortor color? They recommend a colored tint, although I plan to do a 'dry fit' with the Southern Ledgestone product...

3) Does anyone have experience with an inset area similar to the photo from the Owens web site? I'm wondering what is used for a backing inside of the inset...

4) Is it better to put a coating of mortar on the scratch coat, or to butter each piece...

That's all for now!

Dave

[rbatten]

Well lets start with the Morter. I don't know what the difference between S & N are. I know that S is a high strength morter and it comes pre mixed, just add water. I would guess that N is not as strong and I could not find it pre mixed. If you select N you will need to buy sand also, I used all purpose sand by quickrete. I also found that Lowes carries type N and the color tint. HD does not, at least in my area. The mix for type N is 3 parts sand one part morter. I found that using only a couple of onces of the tint is plenty. The bottle says to use half for one batch, I found that the colors were too strong at that measure so I used only a couple of onces for each batch.


The stone you selected is the same one I used, if you are truely look for a drystack look I would suggest using the "Drystack" stones. I got a tight fit on my stones but it required "a lot" of cutting. Now I own a wet saw so this was no a big issue. All thing considered I would go with the dry stack if I were going to do it again. With the southern, the stone are shaped to not fit together perfectly and it requires lot of Puzzle building skills and much patiences!

As for the backing of the inset, you can use anything. I can't tell if the inset is drywall or stone. If its stone I would used the same stuff as on the fireplace, just build out the sides with the Hardie backer, cement board, or just plain morter over metal lathe. My stone overlaps the drywall by about an inch, so you get that nice finished look, I had to build out my fireplace to match the drywall that I put up. In my case it was about 2", I used morter and metal lathe over the raw brick and just built it out 2".

If you look at the directions it tells you to use 3/4" of morter to set the stone, I found it much easier to butter the stone, this left my morter joints small like I wanted them. I just scaped the excess off and continued on my way.


I will try to attach a larger picture so you can see what I mean.

[cx]

Let me clear up the cement confusion, the only part of this I know anything about.

Masonry cement is generally a mixture of Portland cement and some sort of plastisizer, usually hydrated lime, and some other magic materials.

Masonry cements are classified as N, S, and M. The primary difference is the amount of Portland cement in the mix, with the amount increasing in the order I've listed.

If a fella has only Type N cement and wants a Type S mortar, he can add some Portland to the mix. Same would be true to use Type S to make a Type M mortar mix. So, if you have a sack of Portland laying about, you can fix up whatever masonry cement you have available at your local store.

We customarily have type S available locally, but for any sort of stucco work or "fat mud", we generally add a small shovel of Portland to a half-bag mix.

[rbatten]

Does that mean that S is stronger than N?

[Davy]

Yes it is.;)

[BTM]

I'll chime in with some (actually too much) experience with mudd.

But first, here is a link that should clear up the mystery

mortar types (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00032.asp)

Having had architects spec out mud for real stonework & testing of my mud at times, I have learned to mix it the same each & every time. I use 5 gal buckets to measure with. My formula is 1 cement , 1/2 lime , 4 sand.
This falls somewhere between S & N. It also has more than enough compressive strength. It has never failed a test.

Butttt, this has nothing to do with cultered stone or the like.
What IS required, is the ability to hold that 'rock' to the wall while the cement cures. I have found the type S to be stickier for that purpose.

When laying stone that requires a joint, the addition of the joint mortar helps to 'key' in the stones and lock them together.
When doing a drystack look, there isn't that added bond of the joints. Sooo, I usually add some thinset to make it really stick. This was advocated by the cultered stone manufacturers years ago. And yeah, a saw makes the job look a lot better

As far as a backer; I don't like CBU. I prefer the lathe & scratch, because it gives a better 'bite' to the mortar being used to adhere the fake stuff. We call it LICKNSTICK

Hope I was helpful.......Bob:dance:

[cx]

Nothing like the voice of experience. Thanks, Bob. :)

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks all for the information!

I think I'll plan to use Type 'S' with some thinset thrown in since I plan to do the dry fit route.

In general, how 'deep' is the cultured stone? I'm concerned about the corners. As I understand it, the corner pieces are 'L' shaped (longer on one side than the other). This would mean that you should flip-flop the corner pieces as you build up to stagger the joints?

This brings me to the question of sawing then:

1) Where do you get a 'wet saw'? What brands does one look for?

2) The stone on one side of the chimney will but up against an adjacent wall, so the stone will need to be cut to do this. The other side of the chimney will call for the stone to just end naturally about 10"-12". I'm trying to visualize how I would do this to make the ends look natural...

I will try to get some photos going to help support my thoughts!

Dave

[rbatten]

If this is the only project you are doing I would just rent a wet saw, they go for about $30 a day. If you think you will use it enough to justify spending between $300-$1500 there are lots of options on brand and quality. MK and Felker are two very good brands. If you want to stay on the low end Harbor freight has a 10" wet saw for about $300 and there are plenty of smaller units availible for even less through ebay, pawn shops, HD, lowes.

It all depends on what you want and how much use you will get out of the saw. Look around and make an informed choice.