Linoleum protective barriers?

[chip]

In the tile forum/Advice board, Kathy asks if her linoleum should be removed before the installation of tile?

3 contractors bid, 1 said to remove it and "2" said to leave it as a protective barrier.

What if this forum came up with a check list that consumers could ask of their potential tile experts to help the end user qualify their installer.

Is it safe to say that 2 out of 3 installers will tile over linoleum? I have said in this forum and in others that there are times when it is suitable to go over VCT. But these guys are just too lazy to remove the linoleum.

Lets look at it as a public service.

Art Phenis

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[John Bridge]

Hey Art,

I would be willing to begin compiling a check list, and I am willing to post it on the site.

People like to talk directly to people, though, and think about it. If we supply all the info people need, they won't have questions, and we won't get to meet them. Where's the fun in that?

We'd end up talking to no one but ourselves. :-)

The linoleum thing is not going to go away, and I would say that at least a third of the small contractors in this area might consider going over the stuff. And they will come up with all sorts of positive reasoning supporting the practice. It really boils down to laziness, though.

[chip]

Maybe we could keep it in out back pocket.

Offer it after the questions had been asked.

This forum is too important to just keep this info to ourselfs and beat our head agains the wall as the same problems persist.

[Derek & Jacqui]

In England, we used a bonding agent before we tiled over secured linoleum or vinyl. We haven't found this agent in the US. I am under the impression that vinyl/linoleum must be removed before tile can be laid, even over backerboard.

[kalford]

I would never bond tile directly to linoleum(EVEN WITH TEC)lol.But what about applying backer over UNcushioned linoleum? What are TCA's recomendations? I don't have that book.

[Rob Z]

Keith

Utilicrete allows for the use of their board over uncushioned vinyl. It follows their thinking that the cbu isn't bonded to the substrate anyway, only mechanically fastened with HDG roofing nails or cbu screws.

The TCA handbook doesn't address the issue.

Rob

[kalford]

Rob,
My thinking was that given TCA's recomendation not to "bond",they might give the greenlight to go over vinyl with backer.........that's what you just said ain't it?
Cushioned vinyl would concern me though.I have applied backer over "hard" vinyl that was secured to the floor with no signs of coming loose.So far no problems.
Off subject but,you can find all the technical info for Laticrete products at laticrete.com Click on "products" and go to the PDF pages.Some specs are not listed under a particular thinset but if you search the additives you might find the combination and specs.Same is true for other brands.You have to download "acrobat reader" to look at those spec sheets.

[Bud Cline]

Vinyl over wood substrate? Thinset and screw or staple the CBU's.

Vinyl over concrete? Take it out.

Nothing goes over cushion vinyl.

[chip]

In the renovation section of the TCA handbook they concur that sometimes you can/have to tile over some substrates that are quesionable. Page 36 of the 2001 version.

Some VCT has asbestos in it, so if you tile over it, you are incapsulting it and the customer won't have to go through the cost and red tape of removal and disposal.

Keith,

E-mail me your address and I will send you a copy of the handbook. Or go to http://www.literature@tileusa.com to order your own. I think the cost is similar to a good "brewski", so I no doubt can expect your e-mail, and look forward to it.

Derek & Jacqui,

We had a product called epoxy primer, I have a request in to see if that product is still available. If so that is what we formerly required.

Rob,

We also have a SLU "self leveling underlayment". Big savings over k-15, which by the way is a great product.

[Bud Cline]

Keith,

I think the TCA Publication cost is about three bucks and is available on CD also. If you call them they will take a credit card number and it's on its way.

[kalford]

Thanks Bud.I emailed Art.

Well I was in Lowes this morning looking for supplies and buying tile for a customer.There in the isle,as always,there was a man and his wife talking to a salesman about installing tile.To make a long story short,he was giving the usual dose of BULLony about how to set tile on linoleum and NEVER have to worry about it.I hung around acting like I was tile-shopping.I heard the gentleman tell the salesman,"well,it'll be a while before we're ready for it." I could tell that he was put off by the salesman and had a feeling he knew more about it than he was telling the salesman.

I waited until the salesman finally left,walked up to the customer,shook his hand and introduced myself.I was wearing my company cap.I told him what he needed to know about his particular situation.Then he smiled and said,"Yea,I know.My brother is a tile setter and he already told me what needed to be done." He thanked me for my help and we parted ways.

It's good to see an "educated" consumer avoid becoming victom to BAD advice.

Oh,by the way,The salesman claimed to have been an installer before he went to work for Lowes and had installed many, many ceramic tile floors.

I hope that's true....I'll be getting some repair calls!!

[chip]

Keith admitted it in the previous post.

He e-mailed me his address.

I knew he wouldn't part with the $$$, especially when it was enough for a "BREW".

I'll tell you, all you tile contractors are the same. Full of "PISS AND VINEGAR" and when something is free, I'll take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keith, just joking man. I love pulling you guys chain when the opportunity presents its self.

The handbook will be in tomorrows mail and hopefully you will have it by the week end. Then you will have all kinds of questions.

Art

[kalford]

Art,
It's YOUR fault.You just had to tell me that it would basically cost me a brew.Hey,it's hot man!! Duh..uh-huh uh-huh......a book or a brew.Hell even a TEXAN is smarter than that!!!LOL

[Rob Z]

ATTABOY KEITH!!!

[John Bridge]

Several months ago Dave G. mailed me a TCA Handbook on CD-ROM. Opened the little slip cover, and the disc was broken into about 10 pieces. Guess Dave didn't have any more freebies, because I bought the next one . . . . from Dave at the CTEF. I use the free one he sent me as a beer coaster. I think the CD version is $10. (unbroken -- free if you don't mind fragments).

[Bud Cline]

Well I won't tell you guys how I got mine or how much I paid for it.


By the way Mr. Gobis your a gentleman and a scholar, a biker but a gentleman and a scholar, and you won't find no brewsky sitting on my brand new shiny "one piece" CD.

[Dave Gobis]

Sorry John, Dave is not the keeper of the literature link. I only get dave@tileschool.org mail and don't see the orders go out. Actually, Tile Council processes all the orders. The only time I am in SC is for meetings and classes otherwise I live in WI. I'm a commuter. Long live COMAIR. Hey, we got a spanish edition handbook now. Kalford, you still don't understand the purpose of TCA. They do not set standards, only publish them.

[kalford]

oh.................well..................uuuuuuh..........
........hmmmm

I'll have to find somethin else to argue with Art about now!!!

[chip]

How about something like those "Volunteers" aren't worth a tinkers damn?

Every body knows that the CENTRAL MICHIGAN CHIPPEWAS has the best sports program this side of the Pecos. Probably the other side too.

Sonnie, Bud & John,

I went through Pecos, TX. one time on my way to Arizona and I don't necessarily remember the mountains. At least that is what I ass-u-me is what they refered to when they said this side of the Pecos.

Art

[Bud Cline]

Didn't you see all those cantaloupes all over the place man? Those ARE the mountains out there.

[John Bridge]

Art,

The Pecos is a river, man. Geez! Everybody knows that's where Paul Newman carried on his love affair with Lily Langtree (whom he never met).

[Bud Cline]

Isn't that also where Roy Bean practiced law?

[John Bridge]

Yep, Paul Newman was playing Judge Roy Bean. More Texas folklore. Did I ever tell you about how John Wayne nearly saved the Alamo?

[chip]

There I go again, flaunting my ignorance.

Yup, Yup, Da ha ha!