The Passion

[doitright]

Has anybody seen this movie yet? If so any comments?

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[echo8287]

I saw it last weekend(could only get tickets to the 11:00 o'clock pm showing and it was full) and it was overtly graphic in the torturing of Christ. Because the story hasn't changed, it reminded me of the same movie that I had previously seen on TV. I can see why the Jews were complaining about their perception in the movie, but history is what it is. It sort of reminded me of an old western movie and a lynch mob. There was no one talking,moving ,or making any noise in the movie and I had to stop eating my popcorn for fear that I might be crucified in the theater for munching. People seemed to be riveted to the screen,untill they started whipping Jesus and I just about got tired of watching that part as it went on for way too long.Some people were crying but no one went to the bathroom the whole movie. It was an interesting movie and being a Christian it was meaningful to me. For the most part there were little things that seemed to be acurately depicted from the bible. After Jesus died on the cross there could have been a little more of what went on. THe last supper part could have been elaborated on. And a little less torturing,I didn't need that much to get the point across. David

[John Bridge]

My wife and kids are Christians. I'm an agnostic.

One of my boys took me to see the movie. I thought it was pointless. I didn't see any real acting. There isn't a lot of dialog. I thought the whole thing was overdone, excessively bloody. I can tell you why few people were eating during the movie. They'd lost their appetites.

My son didn't like it all that much either, but when I asked him what he thought the point might be, he told me about how a number of pastors are using the movie as an evangelical tool. Whom do they intend to evangelize?

In the spirit of evangelism, though, I agree with David that the story should have continued further into the Resurrection and probably on to the Pentecost and the Ascension.

[doitright]

Just to add my opinion. I truely think Mel Gibson was blessed in being able to be bold enough to even bring this movie to the screen.

I have watched several interviews with Mel about the movie. One thing is that the movie was depicting Christ's final 12 hours here on earth, and the tremendous sacrifice, pain, and suffering he endured (for us, and the forgiveness of our sins). I don't think any of us will ever comprehend the magnitude of that. Therefore this is not typical biography of the life of Jesus.

The level of accuracy that was implemented, I thought was superb. He used original language, and quoted scripture, as well as adding some artistic touch. The graphics were all too real. I think it's much different reading the bible or a history book, to read he received 39 lashes (with the Flagellum - a whip with a wood handle and multiple leather thongs with pieces of metal, bone or stone tied to them, which could literally tear strips of flesh from its victim). To read the prophecy in Isaiah 52:14 about Him being almost unrecognizeable, were just words before. Now reading that and seeing that, has put two entirely different perspectives in my mind.

There were moments my wife had to shut her eyes, then I'd give her a nudge to say - ok to look now.

The other day I was drilling a hole through a top plate for a plumbing vent. I hit a nail, and the drill took me for a ride. Hit my arm pretty good, including an abrasion that only removed the upper epidermus of my arm. Afterwards I thought, gee that was nothing in comparison to someone who truely suffered.

[smee]

I saw the movie.

apart from my ever evolving relationship to religion, I'm agnostic. I was however raised a Catholic.

I felt that as an interpretation, it was exactly what he (Mel Gibson) said it was. I thought it was an almost claustrophic view of the last 12 hours of Jesus' life. I'm not entirely sure he hit his mark - I think it's important however that he felt intense about it and he has brought up much discussion. I think folks forget that this is not a History, it's not actual. It's a metaphor.

The anti-semetic issue is just so overplayed - it's really a superficial discussion. Jesus was a jew - the jews in power were afraid of him, they killed him. The religious connotation of that was exploited later when the Church started to take over the known world. Not that Jews have not been persecuted because of religion. However, that's not what this story is about. I went in thinking about it as a religious movie interpreted by one man. I thought parts were good, the idea was interesting and the debate much more facinating. I think the hype is just that.

btw - in actuality, latin was not the vernacular in that region at that time, it would have been greek.

remember the uproar when "The last Temptation of Christ" came out?

[patti]

Guess I'll chime in on this one. I thought the carrying of the cross and the whipping could have taken less time and have
more time devoted to after the crucifiction. I like the fact that
Mel Gibson had flash backs with Jesus talking to the crowds and at the last dinner. It is history, it just depends on who you want to believe this man named Jesus, who was crucified, really was.

[John Bridge]

Linda,

What is the history of the period? Josephus? :)

[cx]

I dunno, guys. Here we have another guy who wasn't there, doesn't know anybody who was there, doesn't speak the language of any of the people who passed along the story, hasn't had access to any contemporaneous doccumentation of the events, and claims to know exactly what happened. And hordes of people are now claiming his movie is gonna change the world.

The Gospel according to Mel?

Sounds a lot like the original book to me, don't think I need to see the movie.

[tileguytodd]

Havent seen it yet but was planning too.It seems alot of controversy over the movie has made it a hot film,a must see etc etc.
I imagine you will get alot out of it if you are christian,perhaps less if you are not.I have seen a few interviews with mel,heard a couple of radio programs with Mel etc.It sounds as though he has touched alot of people with this film.
It also sounds as though he left room for a sequel ;)

Is it historical? I believe he tried to be historically accurate to the point you can considering its a 2000 year old story that has been translated several times and has more revisions than the US constitution.
Do I believe this really happened? Yes,i do! Perhaps it was even worse than was actually depicted in the film.
Do I blame the Jews?Why do that,if this was preordained to happen as christians believe,what would be the point of blaming an entire people for thousands of years for doing something that had been planned by god and they actually had little or no control over.

Ok anyone for politics?? :)

[John K]

Where do the Agnotics go when they die? Oh, I know! They are forced to set 24x24 marble with a 32nd joint over a wavy slab with no lippage and without knee pads for all eternity.:D

[jjwq8]

Anyone think it a good thing that you don't have a political party with a name like Christian Democrat?

[smee]

John - ancient history. Check it out. Greek was the "english" of it's day, in Rome, and the Levant. and yes, aramaic, and many other languages.
btw - they wouldn't have had long hair by the way. But, the western bible tradition has Jesus with long hair. So again, it's a religious movie. An interesting, if intense one. and I agree with Patti - I don't think he needed to carry on the beating as long as he did.

JOhnK - agnostics go where everyone else goes. and btw - agnostic doesn't me atheist. Two very different things.

I don't think it's going to change the world. It does cause discussion.

[jjwq8]

I have not seen the film but I do have a question.

Total number of Jews worlwide in April 2001, 13.2 Million. That is less a quarter of 1%.

total of Jews in US at the same time some 6 million. Some 2% of the population.

How come such a minority wields so much power over all facets of your life and is even able to dictate what is historical fact and what is not?

[smee]

J - who is the 'your' you are referring to?

the general 'your' as in the friend of 'they'?

:shades:

[jjwq8]

Oh
just the good old US of A

:nya:

[John Bridge]

Linda,

The Dead Sea Scrolls are not written in Greek. They are written in Aramaic. I believe you would grant the Scrolls primary status? :)

I think it's safe to say Agnostics don't know where they are going. And I think it's also safe to say that everybody else just THINKS they know where they are going. :D

Jeremy,

In the U.S. it's hard to know who's a Jew and who isn't unless one professes himself to be a Jew. To me it's never made a lot of difference. It's another organized religion.

[smee]

well, you're quite right. However, I didn't make it up, someone else did. Only, what he's saying is Greek was the universal lanquage. As I said, aramaic was regional. I was merely stating a fact about language, and slightly regretting it....;)

I am constantly blown away that the black\white\yellow\jewish\catholic\muslim thing is even up as conversation anymore. What if that rover up there found some little purple guys....boy what would that do to the race\religion card?:eek:

[John Bridge]

I hear ya on the race/religion thing. :)

BTW, I was raised Catholic, too. Made it all the way to seventh grade and then switched to public schools.

You know, Linda, I'm wondering if there was a universal language back then except amongst the academics. Most folks were illiterate. Don't you think it might have been sort of like in Merry Olde England back about the time William the Norman took over? ;)

Hey, we have a history forum, you know. :D

[smee]

Ha! I haven't forgotten about the History forum one bit John.

oh You know, I was just spewing out a fact, inviting all kinds of fun :)


Here's an interesting bit - if anyone is interested in the metaphor principles of all the worlds great religions check out Joseph Campbell. He was a scholar on the subject. It's pretty darn interesting stuff.

It's not threatening to religion, it's certainly not anti-religion, it can actually enhance ones experience with ones particular beliefs. Anyhoo, just an interesting tip. If anyone here finds this a fantastic subject - his reading on Occidental Mythology or the Hero's Journey you may find quite interesting.

[Steven Hauser]

I did several papers on Joseph Campbell. I really enjoyed him.

Nice reference.

I think they spoke pigeon Greek. BTW 1/2 my family is from Greece, and like a recent movie said EVERYTHING traces itself to a common Greek root.

:D

[flatfloor]

And hordes of people are now claiming his movie is gonna change the world.

CX, I wouldn't dismiss the thought.

Gibson's movie "Braveheart" awoke a long dormant wave of nationalism in Scotland. There is a stong movement for independance there right now.

[jjwq8]

Jim there has been a strong movement for independence in Scotland since the place was first recognized on a map.

It has been my general experience that the only time a Scot actually loves his ancestral home is when he is separated from it by several thousand miles. :D

[John Bridge]

I don't think the Scottish movement is that strong. Took them a while to agree on whether they wanted their autonomous parliament. I don't see anyone rushing toward independence.

Braveheart is another movie that's too long. :)

[jjwq8]

It's a lot like eating haggis.

Any Scot will confirm that it is to be consumed with a bottle of whiskey and a dog.

You get he scotch. The dog gets the haggis.

[tileguytodd]

Anything that gets shoved into a sheeps stomach better be digested by a sheep cause i aint eatin it :D :D

[smee]

Last year I was in Scotland for wedding. Even bring up one scrap of scottish history and they start pouring beer whiskey and forget the dog, they are going to give you some what for about dat!
It was grrrreeet. All I had to say was Collodun and all hell broke loose :D

Braveheart? well, I like it, but man he (that mel guy) obviously didn't spend much time on the history part - sheesh.
The scots did have a girlie glow, and some sheepish smiles when we talked about it.
was it long? every movie these days is three hours. Especially now! and don't we all know that not all stories do a movie make ;)

Henry V (1985)- now there's good Shakespearean, Medieval, war movie and it's only an hour and a halfish!

[jjwq8]

Jeezo L kid ye no feend a weddin claser tae hame? :D

Anyone travels that far to be there would not be allowed to speak at a proper Scots wedding :yeah: Your hosts were not proper Scots :D

Is it proof you're wantin?

Well for starters you can remember it :D

[PaulWolpert]

Not sure it is even possible to comprehend what Jesus went through during his last 12 hours. I would suspect it was worse than is shown in any movie. The thing I really cannot understand is that he did it for the likes of me. (and everyone else)

Won't be long before I have the opportunity to thank Him face to face. Oh what a day that will be!

Paul

[peterd]

Paul,

Amen brother!

[doitright]

Paul & Peter, I'll be in line with you guys. Don't know if I'll be ahead of you or behind you! ;)

John

[flatfloor]

Make sure you get on the UP elevator. ;)

[John K]

Got that right..:D :D

[peterd]

There's a pastor in Riverside, CA by the name of Greg Laurie that said there would be three surprises when we get to heaven:

1) Everyone who you thought wouldn't be there, is there.

2) Everyone who you thought would be there is not there.

3) Your there.


-Peter D

[flatfloor]

THE 3 RELIGIOUS TRUTHS

1. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

2. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian faith.

3. Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store or at Hooters


:D

[John K]

:D :D :D

What about dem catholics?:D

[flatfloor]

Oh, we're busy selling liquor and building Hooters. :D

[jjwq8]

Took pirate dvd's home for the Devine M to watch. Can you imagine that? The Taliban hereabouts refusing to show Mr. Gibsons film! And the Jewish Defence League claim they have nothing in common :yeah:

Anyway, M was delighted that the Aramaic passages didn't need translating. It seems that much of Aramaic and Assyrian (M's mother tongue) are the same.

Me? still didn't watch it yet.

[John Bridge]

Jeremy, I think you need to watch it. It has become sort of an event. :)

[LadyGodiva]

Originally posted by flatfloor
Oh, we're busy selling liquor and building Hooters. :D


I'm Catholic but I don't drink liquor :D

And I don't like Hooters...

Something must be wrong with me:eek:

Be good guys, or you won't get to heaven... oh wait, you'll spend some time in 'limbo'... with me????? ;)

[LadyGodiva]

Almost forgot why I came to this thread...

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I did see the Passion play in Mexico, with real, live people... it was very moving and sad. Blood everywhere, skinned knees and feet, whips flaying on backs etc. I don't know why people do that sort of thing.

[LadyGodiva]

Originally posted by smee
well, you're quite right. However, I didn't make it up, someone else did. Only, what he's saying is Greek was the universal lanquage. As I said, aramaic was regional. I was merely stating a fact about language, and slightly regretting it....;)

I am constantly blown away that the black\white\yellow\jewish\catholic\muslim thing is even up as conversation anymore. What if that rover up there found some little purple guys....boy what would that do to the race\religion card?:eek:


You should visit a forum that I frequent (from my island), and then you'll see how crazy they are about religion and race. It's bloody awful. Whenever I want some peaceful browsing, I visit an American forum. You all are a lot saner and even wiser than my own people. Sad but true.