Let's Split The Sheets!

[Bud Cline]

Have you guys ever had occaision to seperate the cost of installing tile from the cost of installing and finishing grout. For example to sub-out the grouting process only?

How would you guestimate it? If the price to the customer was $3 to install floor tile and you were to sub-out the grouting, what would you pay/charge? Nothing special, no tricks, no gimmicks, no frills, just a clean straight forward job.

How about 4" wall tile, same price?

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[LDavis]

Bud, interesting question and boy do I have a job in mind! I'm not sure how I would do it, but I had it "done for me" by a retail store about a year ago. They had an installer injured in a car accident and ask me to go complete a set of steps and grout the existing 560 sf already installed and ready to grout.

This was one of those "help me out and I'll make it worth your time" "favors". Well, when it came time to make it worth my while, the store owner decided that installing the tile represented 2/3's of the work and paid me 1/3 of the total installation rate for the 560 sf installed.

Fair? I don't know, but I probably wouldn't do it again. This installer didn't believe in cleaning thinset out of the grout joints as the tile was installed. Modified thinset that has had a couple of weeks to cure doesn't give up without a good fight. I spent alot of time cleaning and vacuming grout joints before I ever started grouting.

[Bud Cline]

When my volume was greater than it has been lately I had a couple of gals that would grout wall tile for me. I was always looking for a means of formulating the pay process to keep them interested and let them make a little money for themselves without breaking the bank.

They shared in a cleaning business of their own and thought they were each worth not less than ten dollars an hour. They would only work together so now the cost is $20 per hour. They did a good job but would milk the process at every opportunity. I somehow arrived at thirty-five cents per foot to grout wall tile and they were happy with that. At the time I think the overall job was paying about $2.50 ft.

Floor tile is a different story, I have guys that grout for me hourly at about $8. They have little to worry about as far as "thinset shiners" to deal with. I think the last sizeable job I tried to determine my grouting labor on was a 4000 ft floor job. Their labor was about $800. combined for the whole job, so that's about twenty cents per foot.

I had a competitor tell me one time he figured it was worth 1/3, but I think he was trying to dick with me unless of course he is doing tile for $1 foot. And he ain't!

[John Bridge]

Yeah, I've never figured it out either. On the West Coast, though, and paticularly in the Northwest, they're referring to certain helper type people as "tile finishers," and I think it's even caught on in the union. In other words, it's become a separate trade. I'll ask my brother about it next time I talk to him. Can't find the thread off hand, but it seems to me it's sort of what Jacqui was in Germany. Meister something. Help.

On another note, when I was doing Saltillo out in Arizona years ago, there were people who made their living just grouting the stuff. They would also do the finishing (top coating). Quite a few women were involved back then even.

[Bud Cline]

I have a guy that works for me when needed. He comes from the Seattle area. He has worked for me now for about three years and I can't remember him ever grouting a job for me.

But then his brother also works for me and he couldn't properly set a piece of tile if his life depended on it. He has grouted for me for weeks on end and never complained a word.

[Sonnie Layne]

I, of course don't do the large commercial jobs most of you do. I'll do a couple of rooms and some back-splash. Occasionally some wainscot in baths and about a shower every month or two. I have, however broken down the grouting/cleaning on two occasions. Figured it at 25% of total. Amounts to a little over a buck for floors and a little under for walls. These were "my guys" however, who like to work piece rate on occasion. Allows them to potentially increase their income while freeing me up for other jobs.

I can understand fully that this percentage would probably be out of line in commercial apps.

[Derek & Jacqui]

It is difficult to put a wage on my grouting in Germany as I grouted for Derek and another guy. They both paid me and both shared my living expenses - rent, food, etc. Derek obviously did not pay me as such. My job was to prepare the walls and floors for tiling (all floors had a waterproof membrane as did all the walls in showers and around bathtub areas) and grout. At a rough guess I was making about $1000 per week minimum.
If I grouted jobs that people had left ungrouted (sometimes left the firm we were working for without completing the job) I would be paid for the total of the job. This did not happen too often, as you can imagine, but I do remember one occasion grouting 400-500ft and getting $1000.
I also got paid if I cleaned any trash left by other workers, (by the hour) $18 per hr. As you can see, I really did anything that the firm would pay me for.
In America, the person who grouted (at the firm we were sponsored by) got 25% of the total job.

[Sonnie Layne]

Maybe I'm not too far out of the ball park then???
The way I look at it, the fun of setting tile is setting it, getting the plane and cuts right, it's where most of the artistry come in. The fast and furious act of grouting and keeping it cleaned off behind yourself is hectic and I'd as soon split that portion off. Worth 25% to me. But the work and cleanup has to be very right! Also includes re-attaching the base mould, but I'll leave you a nail gun and CO2 canister to help out.

[John Bridge]

Uh huh, now you're throwing [human waste] in the game -- having to re-install base/skirting. This is carpentry, man!

Just kidding, Sonnie.

Jacqui and Derek, I am at a loss as to the "sponsor" business. Could you expound on that just a little? I know I joked about it earlier -- the "servitude" remark, et al, but I am curious.

[Derek & Jacqui]

John:

The whole purpose of sponsorship is that an employer, who cannot hire an American with the right qualifications, i.e. minimum three years, has the right to employ (sponsor) a foreigner. The sponsor is required to advertise in three surrounding states for an (installer), make appointments for interviews, and prove to immigration that the interviewees were not qualified or suitable to the position being offered. The sponsor may then apply to immigration for a green card. If immigration decides that the (installer) is qualified (backed by certification and references over the previous ten years) and that the postion cannot be filled by an American, they will grant the sponsoree(?) a green card/alien residency. The sponsor is responsible for the sponsoree for the next two years and should pay the return fare to the country of origin in the event that it does not work out.
Hope this clarifies sponsorship.

[Sonnie Layne]

John,
My understanding is that one of the few ways you can gain entrance on a permanent basis or a basis that leads to permanent residency in this country is to have a commercial sponsor, who needs your specific skills and can demonstrate to the state dept and immigrations that said skills are not readily available here.

I ran into this when trying to immigrate to Australia, finally found a sponsor who needed my skills and my ability to speak "Texan" (which made a unique find, you see). Problem I ran into was that they had an age shut-off of 45, I had just turned 46. So the thing went down the wash.

Very tricky to stay legally in any desirable place and be able to support yourself at the same time.

[Sonnie Layne]

heck, we're all online at the same time!!!